Class Transcript 11/21/03

9/9 :~: 9/26 :~: 10/3 :~: 10/7 :~: 10/31 :~: 11/7 :~: 11/21

Grace>>Hi Daniel

Daniel>>Hi Yesi

Daniel>>I'm not quite sure it would Amber is expecting today

Grace>>Yes, we were expecting you today

*+**** Faith entered  Room1. Time:Fri Nov 21 12:55:22 2003

Grace>>Hi adrienne

Faith>>good afternoon:)

Daniel>>if my words don't always make sense, it's because Im using voice to text software.

Daniel>>I'm a terrible typist

Faith>>enjoying this beautiful weather this afternoon i hope?

Faith>>hi Daniel

Grace>>wow, how interesting!

Daniel>>hi Adrianne

Faith>>any drawbacks you experience using the software?

Grace>>I have never tried voice to trext sortwares

Daniel>>it takes a while for the program to learn your voice

Daniel>>you always have to go back and then look for errors

Grace>>are there any adaptations for people who are not native speakers?

Daniel>>interesting question

Daniel>>I believe there are

Daniel>>but it would take some research

Grace>>i thought so

Daniel>>people who are poor writers are often poor readers

Faith>>how long have you been using the software?

*+**** Amber entered Room1. Time:Fri Nov 21 12:58:17 2003

Daniel>>there's a lot of interest from this population

Daniel>>in using this technology to help with writing

Daniel>>but the problem is to have to be able to read to find the errors

Daniel>>some errors are very weird

Daniel>>HI Amber

Amber>>hello I thought I'd never make it I hope everyone has introduced themselves to Daniel

Daniel>>yup

*+**** Hope entered  Room1. Time:Fri Nov 21 12:59:27 2003

Amber>>we will wait for the others but what have we discussed so far?

Faith>>what types of 'weird errors?"

Grace>>Hi Hope!

Hope>>Hi everyone

Daniel>>we've been talking about voice to text software

Faith>>(Daniel is currently using it)

Daniel>>I may say the word "Snow" and a word and that has nothing in to do with the word Snow might appear

Amber>>did you explain to everyone about using it through the chat the other day?

Daniel>>no, we just got started

Daniel>>I'm a terrible typist

Amber>>Oh--got it he is using it now--duh

Daniel>>I spend more time looking at the keys than what's on the screen

Daniel>>for this reason, they usually hate chats

*+**** Patricia--Kathrine--Ryan entered  Room1. Time:Fri Nov 21 13:01:30 2003

Patricia  Kathrine--Ryan>>hello assistive technology friends.

Faith>>hi there

Grace>>Hi Tricia!

Daniel>>I Tricia

Patricia  Kathrine--Ryan>>hello Daniel.   nice to meet you.

Daniel>>nice to meet all of you

Daniel>>are we all here?

Faith>>thanks for joining us:)

Amber>>heloo everyone--Daniel could you tell us a little about your current position right now and then we could all introduce ourselves...and get started

Daniel>>OK

Daniel>>I'm the assistive technology coordinator for County public schools

Daniel>>I've been a special educator for 29 years

Daniel>>Amber and I have worked together for the last four or five looking at courses to assist teachers

Amber>>I will also mention that Daniel will have the lead and I will only hop in when needed so do not be bashful ASK QUESTIONS

Daniel>>I've got really cool job

Daniel>>I get to play with all the latest technology that's available for children with disabilities

Daniel>>many times, company sent me stuff for free

Amber>>Daniel is very modest he has done numerous national events and conferences and work on a variety of committees on this topic

Daniel>>yeah, I like to speak to the groups, especially in cool places

Daniel>>I've always been interested in technology

Faith>>do all local school districts have the equivalent of someone in your position (an AT coordinator)?

Daniel>>I've always wondered why more technology has not been used to assist students who are having difficulty in the classroom

Daniel>>I think so

Daniel>>it's become a real hot topic in education

Patricia  Kathrine--Ryan>>as requested, i'm going to introduce myself.  i'm a ph.d. student in edci teacher education and professional development.  i'm also a full time lecturer in the dept. of reading, special education and instructional technology at towson university.

Daniel>>pleased to meet you

Faith>>i'm a MA student in curriculum and instruction (specifically in English Ed), am doing research that involves the International Children's Digital Library.. will be heading into a ph.d program in Information Studies in the Fall..

Grace>>I am a phd student in the second language education program in EDCI. I have a special interest in instructional technology, too.

Daniel>>pleased to meet you.  I've spent part of today exploring the utilization of a program called Kurzweil that is designed for people with difficulty reading.

Daniel>>it seems to have an application for students learning English as a second language

Patricia  Kathrine--Ryan>>is kurzweil a program appropriate for secondary education and higher education, or can it also be used in elementary grades?

Grace>>actually, i was just going to ask you that, if the the program has an application for ELLS, too.

Daniel>>I feel Kurzweil is appropriate for most age groups...

Grace>>does it have levels?

Daniel>>students are very comfortable using it...

Grace>>reading lecvels?

Grace>>reading levels, I meant.

Daniel>>teachers can sometimes be the roadblocks for for its implementation in the elementaries school level

Grace>>why do you think so?

Daniel>>the beauty of Kurzweil is that it reads anything

Daniel>>A Primer or Warr and Peace

Grace>>how does it work?

Patricia  Kathrine--Ryan>>of all the read-aloud products, you find kurzweil to be the best?

Daniel>>using a regular flatbed scanner, it converts images into text that can be read by the software in the computer

Daniel>>Kurzweil can be very expensive

Faith>>hmm.. sounds like something we could use for the iCDL

Daniel>>$900 for one copy of the scanning program - that's pretty high

Faith>>currently all of our books are scanned images

Faith>>would it be able to recognize the text on scanned pages?

Daniel>>if your books already scanned,

Daniel>>I would use a cheaper program

Daniel>>a program called text help is very powerful

Hope>>does the program allow the text to be edited?

Grace>>it is not the same as readhelp is it?

Daniel>>all of these programs allow editing

Hope>>do the students learn all the options on the program?

Daniel>>TextHelp is the company - Read and Write 6 is the product.

Faith>>thanks

Amber>>Daniel after a little dicussion with/about Kurzweil (we will see on our AT tour next Tuesday) --perhaps we could move into the mock meeting and then come back to the open floor since I am sure they will have many other questions

Daniel>>there's also program calledWriteOUtLoud

Daniel>>it costs about $100 per machine

Daniel>>there's also program that you can get for free online - can't remember its name

Daniel>>I like text help because it works with any Microsoft product

Daniel>>which means Apple users will have difficulty

Amber>>I have played with Kurrzweil 3000 scan and read read only --read and write gold and something like WYNN Wizard (that suc@@@)

Amber>>Kurzweil top of the line was GREAT but cost a lt

Daniel>>yes - WYNN is another - not my favorite

Amber>>a lot that is

Faith>>so where should we start for our mock meeting

Daniel>>Amber - its up to you

Patricia  Kathrine--Ryan>>how about if we identify roles.

Faith>>should we start discussing the sett framework as it applies to anna?

Amber>>Davis will be our leader...but each of you read over the background....

Faith>>(after defining roles)

Amber>>so I thought wyou could...

Amber>>share ideas with Daniel and see what he thinks..

Daniel>>I thought ANNA was an interesting case

Amber>>each of you could take a role (one of the teachers or just discuss as a whole

Grace>>is it a real case?

Daniel>>Has ANNA come to America this year?

Faith>>1998

Daniel>>and how did she do with her reading and writing last year?

Amber>>Anna is a case the students will want to discuss with later...

Daniel>>this year

Daniel>>poops

Amber>>the case for today is the case you sent Daniel

Amber>>Per

Daniel>>by the way, poops = OOPS

Daniel>>sorry about that

Hope>>What is Anna's disability?  From what I could understand that English as a second language ?

Faith>>so - Amber - we are NOT discussing Anna??

Amber>>OK guys time out a second..

Daniel>>do you mean SEan?

Grace>>Do we consider being an ESL student disability?

Daniel>>ESL is not a disability

Amber>>the case right now we want to discuss is the case Daniel sent us information on Sean

Daniel>>OK!

Faith>>when did he send this info? is it in webct? an email?

Patricia  Kathrine--Ryan>>thank you!  the sean case study is in front of me and i was trying to open anna!

Grace>>I am not sure if I have received info about Sean!

Amber>>Both look under course content last several weeks---others perhaps start the dialog

Daniel>>let me give you an overview

Daniel>>Sean is a fourth-grade students who is falling behind in the area of word recognition

Daniel>>this is affecting the reading comprehension and spelling

*+**** Amber--Pruitt-Mentle entered EDUC477_Room1. Time:Fri Nov 21 13:26:28 2003

Daniel>>consequently, all areas are suffering

Daniel>>it's very common for student in the third or fourth grade to suddenly hit the "wall" of academic success

Daniel>>Sean has an IEP

Daniel>>the IEP requires the teacher to read to him all extended passages

Hope>>Was it hard for him to get his IEP?  I read one case Knable vs Bexley and the parents kept asking for an IEP, but never got one...only a draft

Hope>>extended passages - does this include more than 2 - 3 sentences?

Daniel>>no, not really.  The push for standardized testing is forcing schools to make the decisions earlier in earlier

Daniel>>Hope - it depends how much time he has

Hope>>do you mean earlier in the school year or in the student's schooling?

Patricia  Kathrine--Ryan>>the teacher must read to him? or could it be an assistant, or another student?

Daniel>>earlier in this student schooling

Hope>>sounds good

Amber>>Perhaps we can all take 2-3 minutes look at the 2 documents https://www.courses.umd.edu/SCRIPT/EDUC477/scripts/serve_home under posted Nov 11 and 18th --you probably have already looked at but have been focused on the group project case

Daniel>> the IEP says teacher - but....

Daniel>>in the real world, it doesn't happen - few students in the fourth grade want their teacher to read them

Daniel>>this is where systems technology steps in

Daniel>>this is where assistant technology steps in

Daniel>>assistant= assistive

Daniel>>students need independence

Patricia  Kathrine--Ryan>>right. not cool at all for the teacher to read to a 4th grader. ah ha...AT...now that's cool for a 4th grader to use!

Daniel>>that's right, but it still depends how is introduced to the rest of the class

Daniel>>if the kit sticks out - he won't use it

Amber>>good point but even by 4th grade you see resistance? to be read to?

Daniel>>All the time

Daniel>>it only gets worse

Patricia  Kathrine--Ryan>>i agree w/ Daniel, it depends on how it's introduced...and apparently there's more coming...

Daniel>>so the question is -  what assistive technology would you recommend?

Hope>>How about the text to speech software

Daniel>>that's an obvious choice - anything else?

Patricia  Kathrine--Ryan>>i'm most familiar w/ read outloud.  but it may be a distraction in the classroom, and sticking with the theme i've introduced, maybe not so cool.

Amber>>Daniel do not give it away--a few are relooking at the case

Patricia  Kathrine--Ryan>>the text could be  put in digital form and burned on a cd.  sean could listen to the text on a cd-walkman.

Daniel>>FYI - TextHelp allows text to be downloaded as a MP3 file

Daniel>>BUT - what else?

Patricia  Kathrine--Ryan>>excellent!

Amber>>can everyone see Yesmin's comments they show up for me as private message?

Hope>>Wiggleworks -  I think would be a good to learn to read

Hope>>Yes I can see Yesmin's comments

Grace>>okay, good

Faith>>i can see too

Hope>>but it says Private MSG

Daniel>>Me too

Patricia  Kathrine--Ryan>>i see yesim's post. it's the hyperlink that does it, i think.

Patricia  Kathrine--Ryan>>Hope...i think you have the ticket w/ wiggleworks. 

Daniel>>back to the question - is there any assistive technology that doesn't require a computer?

Amber>>don't worry about it everyone can see so its not so private...what At would you recommend given the student?

Hope>>a tape recorder

Daniel>>great - where to get the text?

Hope>>books on tape

Daniel>>recording for the blind is an option

Amber>>what about all the math ?

Faith>>more reading aloud of his math work

Hope>>3-D examples

Faith>>simulations

Daniel>>Has anyone heard of a Reading Pen?

Faith>>no

Patricia  Kathrine--Ryan>>manipulatives for authentic types of problem solving. yes, we have a reading pen at tu.

Grace>>but how will he deal with the math problems when he takes the tests (standardized tests)?

Hope>>No

Faith>>are students allowed to use AT devices on standardized tests?

Daniel>>the reading pen allows the students to do all over specific words better than read to them

Hope>>does it pronounce the words and give definitions?

Daniel>>students may use AT devices that do not invalidate the purpose of the assessment

Patricia  Kathrine--Ryan>>can you restate what the reading pen does..again, please.

Daniel>>yes it pronounce words and yes it gives definitions

Faith>>invalidate?

Hope>>is it disruptive to the other students in class?

Daniel>>no - it has a small speaker to get only be heard in the pen is next to your ear

Patricia  Kathrine--Ryan>>the reading pen also works well for students with dyslexia.

Daniel>>it does not work for students who have no reading vocabulary

Daniel>>takes too much time

Grace>>I have a question, Daniel, a teacher in my program said that, if a student gets assistance when taking st. tests, his/her scores is not included when calculating student sucess, is this true?

Grace>>I meant school success.

Daniel>>good question - it depends on the purpose of the test

Daniel>>on talking about student success

Hope>>are students with disabilities given additional time on the tests?

Daniel>>a test of reading comprehension would not be valid with a text voice program

Grace>>even if the kid is disabled

Grace>>doesn't sound fair!!

Daniel>>in Maryland, students who require additional time to complete classroom tasks may have 50 percent more time to complete a standardized test

Faith>>right - esp if that's what he uses every day in class...

Daniel>>again, it depends on the purpose of the assessment

Daniel>>text voice works great for students taking a social studies test

Grace>>could you elaborate on that?

Daniel>>but if it's a pure assessment of reading, the results would be invalid

Hope>>could they verbally give their answers are are they required to write essays too?

Amber>>but I thought from the referral "Oral reading has an negative impact on comprehension."--so all these thigs seem to do oral reading??very confused?

Daniel>>yes - but it's better than nothing

Daniel>>other assistive technology devices that could be considered is a spelling dictionary

Daniel>>some will actually read the words to the user via an earphone

*-**** Amber left EDUC477_Room1. Time:Fri Nov 21 13:48:50 2003

Patricia  Kathrine--Ryan>>question..why search for AT devices that do not require a computer?

Daniel>>that may tell you a little but more about Sean.....

Daniel>>he married my daughter

Amber>>but negative seems like below what ever was before--does this referral statement mean has limited effect or nonfused on what this means I guess

Grace>>because, it gives more independence! I think.

Faith>>sean married your daughter?

Daniel>>Independence rules!!!!

Hope>>he is your son-in-law?

Daniel>>yeah Sean graduated fromSalisbury University with a degree in archeology

Amber>>sean who is 4??

Faith>>9

Daniel>>was

Patricia  Kathrine--Ryan>>in 4th grade.

Amber>>got it

Daniel>>all of his textbooks were on tape

Daniel>>these recordings for the blind from middle school through college

Faith>>did he continue to need the AT in college?

Daniel>>watching him work on an assignment was always very impressive

Daniel>>it's not that he can't read bbut he reads very slowly

Patricia  Kathrine--Ryan>>so cutting edge AT devices that we have today were not available for him at the time.

Daniel>>right

Amber>>so my question is (I am determined) if oral reading = negative effect on comprehension what will help give an increased effect?

Daniel>>in most cases, students read along as the text is read

Daniel>>this increase is comprehension and seems to increase word recognition skills in many cases

Hope>>is it because oral reading only reads the sentences and no further explanation is give?

Daniel>>that can be a factor

Hope>>would it be helpful for Sean to have received the assignments earlier than the other students, listen to the books on tape, then participate in the discussions during class?

Daniel>>when I work with teachers in using assistive technology to read to students they inevitably set the reading speed at a slow rate

Daniel>>150-160 wpm

Grace>>does it have a negative effect on other students, or their parents?

Hope>>that's a slow rate??? what is a fast rate?

Daniel>>using his tape player that had a veritable speed, Sean hEARD PASSAGES AT 225-250 wpm

Daniel>>that's how fast most people read silently

Daniel>> 175wpm is considered average speaking rate

Patricia  Kathrine--Ryan>>did sean feel he received the necessary support from the iep team?

Daniel>>yes, he did.  But the support to caring teachers and loving parents

Hope>>so how did he do with his math and science classes, with books on tape?

Daniel>>I know this science was on tape

Daniel>>are not sure about math

Faith>>did they come up with any other solutions?

Faith>>how did he do on his standardized tests without the devices?

Amber>>now Daniel what could we do as "general teachers"--how do most teachers (general classroom) usually resond?  in this case there is an IEP which helps in the process --do all teachers jump on board? what if student had similiar problems (some) but did not have an IEP or was not able to get one? (ie the Anna case)

Grace>>Does the degree of involvement of parents change how appropriate the IEP is and how well it is implemented?

Daniel>>he struggled

Daniel>>in IEP is only as good as the people implementing it

Patricia  Kathrine--Ryan>>it shocks me to think that some may *not* implement an iep.

Daniel>>in our system, I find general educators are, at times, more receptive and special educators

Daniel>>time is a serious factor in the classroom

Hope>>with hearing the words, do students remember the words, the meaning, and learn how to use it?

Hope>>I mean from books on tape

Daniel>>Hope - depends on the kid

Daniel>>I don't think it made a big difference for Sean

Hope>>Oh, I see...

Daniel>>I've seen other kids who had used text to voice for a few years and then stop

Amber>>from many observations I have seen AT in most teachers voc equates to special ed--ost (is changing) do not understand the no tech--low tech strategies that could be very helpful for many of these areas---

Daniel>>VOC = ?

Amber>>so this actally goes against what you are seeing in the classroom--or are you saying (Daniel) that given and IEP and step by step how to do it most general teachers carry through?

Amber>>sorry vocabulary

Daniel>>assistive technology removes the dependence of the student on the teacher.  It allows the teacher to not have to focus all of her time on one or two students

Daniel>>the question is - what's appropriate

Daniel>>by appropriate, I mean implementation, and the correct device

Daniel>>I know or running out of time, but the S. E. T. T. model is very effective

Amber>>if the IEP is something that needs speific items then yes most carry out the process but when going the extra mile to find out themselves why a student(s) is doing poorly in class and trying things without an IEP is what I am talking about

Grace>>I think as long as general teacher understands that he/she holds the primary responsibility to implement the IEP as much as special ed. teachers and is given support, why not?

Grace>>I was responding to Amber's question.

Hope>>but I have a question, if the students' vocabulary or comprehension is not at the same level as the other students in their grade, how can the school expect them to do well on the standardized tests?

Hope>>I found that the wording of the test questions were sometimes misleading and difficult to comprehend

Amber>>ah!! VERY GOOD QUESTION --that we are all waitung to find out

Hope>>how do students with disabilities survive?

Daniel>>good question - especially when the state is expecting average results above the 50th percentile

Patricia  Kathrine--Ryan>>Hope, it's not only the school's expectations, but the state of maryland.

Amber>>waiting to find out--related to what NCLB has mandated

Hope>>don't they have enough data now to know the answer?

Amber>>so Daniel...

Daniel>>in actuality, the students of QACPS with IEP's do not have a negative impact on our performance

Grace>>is this generrally the case for all schools?

Hope>>are these students held back in grades?

Daniel>>political pressure tends to forget individual strengths and weaknesses

Amber>>if this were an IEP meeting regarding a student (Sean) and we were say meeting at the beginning of the year to "redo" the IEP walk us through the steps (or some of them) keeping in mind we are general teachers

Daniel>>we would start by looking at the students goals and objectives

Amber>>good what are they?

Daniel>>it's the goals and objectives to drive everything

Patricia  Kathrine--Ryan>>and include include present levels of performance

Daniel>>good point Patricia!

Grace>>and criterian

Patricia  Kathrine--Ryan>>thanks.

Grace>>what is the creterian to measure student progress

Daniel>>so given the information you have about Sean, what goal would you give him for reading?

Patricia  Kathrine--Ryan>>iep team can revisit the characteristics of the child, and determine how the system can match those characteristics to meet the learner's needs.

Amber>>so Daniel how many should we focus on and how does the group come up with it?

Amber>>there were times where (Wheaton days) the special ed teachers "did it" and we just said OK...I don't think we knew any better

Faith>>to increase his word recognition from 1.7 to 2.7? (example of a goal)

Daniel>>that would work

Grace>>right, adrienne, a mesurable goal.

Grace>>measurable goal, I meant. Not just from teacher observations.

Daniel>>what objectives would you use to measure progress towards that goal?

Patricia  Kathrine--Ryan>>it seems to me that that is an objective that may fit under a more general goal.

Hope>>increase his word recognition, from say 2nd grade to 3rd grade level

Daniel>>increasing word recognition could be a goAL or objective

Patricia  Kathrine--Ryan>>but i'll provide some more specific objectives aligned with adrienne's stated goal.

Patricia  Kathrine--Ryan>>use a pen reader while engaging in independent reading activities to increase the rate of word recognition.

Amber>>and then how to EACH of us in our individual classess work towards that? and how do we "word it" so that we can be sure we can measure if we are meeting it

Daniel>>we try to stay away from specific devices in a goal or objective

Patricia  Kathrine--Ryan>>really?  interesting.

Daniel>>would have the reading pen doesn't work for the student?  then we are stuck

Grace>>because that device may not be available to the student all the time, is that why?

Patricia  Kathrine--Ryan>>i understand.

Grace>>that makes sense

Daniel>>he might just not like it

Hope>>so it is good to be general on the goals

Daniel>>yes - I like general goals and specific objectives to meet that cold

Daniel>>cold equals goal

Faith>>so  we still need an objective for our goal?

Amber>>so Daniel what and/or how would you state a goal and objective (just one for now)

Daniel>>the student will increase reading proficiency but over one year = GOAL?

Daniel>>but equals by

Faith>>and the break it down ..s ay into a few months at a time?

Amber>>don't we have to define increase reading prf a little more than that?

Faith>>what sean will be able to do by x date..

Daniel>>student will identify 90 percent of words in passages at the second grade level

Grace>>but we need to define "increasing reading proficiency", what do we mean by that?

Grace>>yes, that is more specific and measurable

Amber>>good got it

Grace>>I like the second one better

Daniel>>the objectives will define reading proficiency

Patricia  Kathrine--Ryan>>i'm sure these are the kinds of questions that are posed by general classroom teachers at iep meetings.  clarification must be an essential component of the process.

Daniel>>this way, at an objective for comprehension would also be added

Amber>>which seems to be important in Sean case

Daniel>>the assistant technology would be brought up after the goals and objectives were determined and instructional accommodations were discussed

Daniel>>they have to be specific to the goals and objectives

Grace>>do you give options to the student?

Daniel>>I still try to stay away from specific devices

Patricia  Kathrine--Ryan>>i'm not sure i agree with the process because funds may need to be allocated for the purchase of specific AT devices.  if it is not clearly stated in the iep, then the child may be less likely to benefit from the assistive technology.

Grace>>I mean, if there are several software that serves the same purpose, how do you determine which AT to use?

Hope>>if you don't list specifics, then how can you hold the people involved responsible?

Faith>>and as the AT devices coordinator for QA are you given financial guidelines you must stay under?

Faith>>how much does $ play into it all?

Grace>>good question, adrienne!

Daniel>>Faith- I have no budget - no money

Faith>>:(

Faith>>but the budge for AT for the county?

Faith>>is there one?

Amber>>anyone want to take a stab at how you would (as a general classroom) teacher "write" an objective related to your particular subject area -- that is working towards or in line with this IEP

Grace>>then who determines what to buy, if not you?

Daniel>>nO BUDGET FOR at NOT ONE CENT

Grace>>that is sad!

Patricia  Kathrine--Ryan>>ridiculous.

Daniel>>universal design is growing in our county

Hope>>then how do you get AT devices for the students?

Daniel>>school see the use of technology not just for children with disabilities but children were struggling learners

Grace>>yes, such as ESL learners

Hope>>that is good to hear about UD and that  the tech is used for other children 

Grace>>who struggle with the language

Patricia  Kathrine--Ryan>>is there a university nearby for partnerships?

Daniel>>are countywide master plan does not contain any specific reference to assistive technology

Amber>>Daniel perhaps you can mention the state "warehouse" where a lot of folks get the AT

Daniel>>but it doesn't refer extensively to universal design and a technology appropriate for its implementation

Faith>>yet your position exists.. facinating

Daniel>>special education pays my bills

Daniel>>but not for my toys

Faith>>who pays for them?

Daniel  Rose>>some people in the state see QACPS as a leader in assistive technology.

Daniel>>interesting - isn't it

Patricia  Kathrine--Ryan>>yes, it is interesting.  i guess it all depends on what you do with what you have.

Daniel>>each school receives funding based on how many children with IEP's go to that school

Daniel>>part of that money is used for assistive technology

Grace>>So who is responsible from the budgeting?

Hope>>but what if you don't know until after the school year begins?

Hope>>especially if you have transfers

Daniel>>we shoot from the hip

Amber>>Daniel what if a student "had" to have an AT device that your county did not already have --explain to them what is done to get it (even without the funds)

Daniel>>we borrow

Grace>>from whom?]

Daniel>>most companies have demos

Daniel>>there is money in most schools for these devices

Daniel>>the expense comes when we want to network throughout the school

Hope>>wouldn't this be a good marketing tool to have the company supply the schools with the technology?

Amber>>but you just said you had NO AT money?

Hope>>how long is the borrowing period?

Hope>>and what happens when the equipment is broken?

Daniel>>Ihave no money - schools do

Amber>>ha ha

Patricia  Kathrine--Ryan>>school based management.

Grace>>but you determine/order what AT to buy

Daniel>>Yup

*-**** Patricia--Kathrine--Ryan left  Room1. Time:Fri Nov 21 14:30:51 2003

Faith>>what if they say no to AT?

Grace>>that is good

Grace>>have they ever said no?

Daniel>>interestingly, when general educators are more apt to spend the money than special educators

Hope>>so you bring in the tech...have the students try them out and then determine which works best?

Daniel>>rIGHT Hope

Amber>>or you want something that costs more than another device avaiable that does the same thing?

*+**** Patricia--Kathrine--Ryan entered Room1. Time:Fri Nov 21 14:32:01 2003

Hope>>how long is the learning curve for the students to learn the new technology?

Patricia  Kathrine--Ryan>>i lost my link, but now i'm back.

Daniel>>depends on the kid and depends on a technology

Faith>>do you see a lot of AT abandonment?

Hope>>do any of them get to take some of it home to help with homework?

Daniel>>we had kids use Kurzweil for high school assessment after 20 minutes of training

Daniel>>homework - interesting - by law devices provided at school should be provided at home

Daniel>>this is not being enforced

Amber>>OK so many questions so little time--we were not able to do the SETT framework but I can say Daniel they have had and are still having much (too much) fun with SETT so no need to think they are getting off ...

Amber>>Grace remember the Tour on Tuesday

Amber>>I shoulld also mention...

Daniel>>SETT rules!  not only for technology, but for addressing any educational or behavioral problems a student might be having

Faith>>are we having a chat after the tour?

Patricia  Kathrine--Ryan>>Daniel,  Thank you very much for sharing your expertise and practical knowledge.  It was most helpful.

Hope>>Thank you Daniel!

Daniel>>iTS BEEN FUN

Amber>>that Daniel is doing this after MAJOR kidney surgery on Monday (yes a few days ago) so we all need to blow him a big kiss and hug before you leave

Faith>>definitely has been informative:)

Hope>>HUGS AND KISSES Daniel!!!

Daniel>>I'm feeling fine

Faith>>get well soon:)

Patricia  Kathrine--Ryan>>i'm glad you're feeling well.

Hope>>I hope you get better soon!

Grace>>Amber, thanks for inviding Daniel!

Amber>>no chat we will talk while touring no chat that Friday either of course--you guys have enough to do

Grace>>inviting

Patricia  Kathrine--Ryan>>ok.. so i'll see everyone on tuesday.  where shall we meet?

*-**** Daniel eft  Room1. Time:Fri Nov 21 14:36:36 2003

Amber>>Any questions for those that can stay for Daniel regarding the ANNA case?

Patricia  Kathrine--Ryan>>and what time, again, please?

Grace>>7pm

Faith>>and - can we chat about the IEP group work?

Patricia  Kathrine--Ryan>>i must go pick up my kids or they will be standing outside of the school waiting for me.

Faith>>bye tricia

Amber>>Bye Patricia enjoy the holiday

Faith>>we need to chat regarding the group work

Hope>>Bye Tricia...see you on Tuesday!

Grace>>yes, and I am going to get a ticket. Maybe I already got one.

Faith>>Amber - is there a set time for us to discuss Anna?

Patricia  Kathrine--Ryan>>thanks.  once again, i'll check back on the transcript to see group work details.   bye everyone. 

Amber>>bye everuyone perhaps through email you guys can decide on a chat time

*-**** Patricia--Kathrine--Ryan left  Room1. Time:Fri Nov 21 14:38:21 2003

 9/9 :~: 9/26 :~: 10/3 :~: 10/7 :~: 10/31 :~: 11/7 :~: 11/21