Patricia--Kathrine--Ryan entered Room1.
Time:Fri Sep 26 12:57:18 2003
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Amber>>Hi Patricia
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Hope>>hello tricia
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Amber>>Patricia--while we are waiting
for Grace can you one toss out the Fridays you think you could not get on at
1:00 and 2
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Amber>>Tricia --how many classes do you
teach there that they keep you ties up so long? how do you do your own studies?
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*+**** Grace entered Room1.
Time:Fri Sep 26 13:00:22 2003
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Amber>>hi
Grace
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Hope>>hi
Grace
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Grace>>hi, am i late
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Patricia
Kathrine--Ryan>>amber, it looks like i am not available on
the 2nd and 3rd friday of each month. i'll
answer your next question.
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Amber>>just started good timing
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Grace>>good
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Amber>>Tricia was going to lead the
discussion today...so I will turn it over to her so we can get started
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Patricia
Kathrine--Ryan>>i teach three courses.
one is a graduate course off campus. the two undergraduate classes are
during the middle of the afternoon. my
schedule accomodates time for my academic studies and family life.
i just need to watch my calendar carefully.
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Amber>>got it--good I thought they were
stretching you--understand now
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Patricia
Kathrine--Ryan>>ok, we'll begin to discuss COMAR and NCLB,
but before we begin, does anyone want to share anything for the good of the
order? perhaps a general comment
about the online discussion, or organization of the resources to prepare us for
the discussion/ chat?
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Hope>>After reading everyone's replies...I
agree with them and find it interesting as another view point.
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Grace>>did you get a chance to read my
messages
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Patricia
Kathrine--Ryan>>yes, hope, it seems we were all able to
identify something different, and learn from each other. yes, Grace, i read your
responses just before 1:00 today.
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Grace>>i am not very enthusiastic about
NCLB and i guess i was too critical
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Amber>>I have been excited about the
depth of the comments in the discussion--which reflect that you have read and
yet the flavor of personal viewpoints has really shown itself
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Hope>>I don't think you were too
critical...you need to be any ways when you read policies/regs/laws
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Patricia
Kathrine--Ryan>>let's pick up yes with your perspective and
then we'll switch modes in a little while.
you said nclb is not in touch with reality, can you elaborate?
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Patricia
Kathrine--Ryan>>Grace's perspective.
please share.
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Grace>>it requires so many things that
is not possible
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Patricia
Kathrine--Ryan>>may not be possible for some, may be a more
appropriate way to state it.
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Hope>>do you think that is why the system
seems slow and not effective?
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Hope>>which do you think is not possible?
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Amber>>Hope what do you mean by the
system?
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Grace>>yesterday i heard that two
teachers lost their jobs bec they didn't have therequired certifications,
praxis, etc
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Patricia
Kathrine--Ryan>>first, amber, i think you did an excellent
job organizing the structure of the online module for the COMAR regulations and
NCLB. I was accessing information
that is so necessary for me to understand, and I'm glad I've been required to
read it, think deeply about it, and respond in writing for futher reflection.
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Grace>>NCLB requires that there will be
qualified teachers in every classrooom but firing teachers when there is a
teacher shortage ???
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Amber>>certifications can be a cut and
dry requirement
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Hope>>the adminsitrators who need to manage
and meet the goals
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Amber>>Grace--is it better to have
unqualified teachers then noone--is that what you are saying?
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Patricia
Kathrine--Ryan>>i don't believe certification as cut and dry
is such a bad thing. there was a significant clause in NCLB about long term
substitutes. i believe a classroom
teacher should be qualified to teach in the subject area he/ she is assigned.
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Grace>>I think NCLB requirements should
take place in phases
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Hope>>Grace, but then you would get other
teachers and parents questioning why they are teaching when they are not
qualified
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Grace Yilmazel-Sahin>>I do believe that teachers must
be qualified to teach but as I said, we need to help them get qualified
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Patricia
Kathrine--Ryan>>hope, how do you recommend adminstrators
manage and achieve goals? do they use NCLB as a framework?
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Hope Lisa--Hom>>I
support that
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Hope>>From a mother's view point...yes, I
would think that NCLB would be a good starting guideline
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Grace>>also, the focus on standardized
testing, what do you think about that?
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*-**** Patricia--Kathrine--Ryan
left Room1.
Time:Fri Sep 26 13:12:00 2003
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Amber>>and there have been incentives to
do this although I am not sure if 1) certification equates to good teaching
(although some research suggests it does and I hope so) and 2) some of the
"lets get certified in a summer programs are they really dmeeting the
requirements???
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Grace>>is standardized testing fair to
all the students?
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*+**** Patricia--Kathrine--Ryan entered
Room1.
Time:Fri Sep 26 13:12:21 2003
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Patricia
Kathrine--Ryan>>my connection was lost, but i've
reconnected.
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Patricia
Kathrine--Ryan>>i may have missed some content. my last
comment was to hopee....
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Hope>>I don't like tests altogether, but it
is the "practice" to segregate who is learning and who is not
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Amber>>Grace asked about testing--are
they really fair
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Patricia
Kathrine--Ryan>>hope, how do you recommend administrators
manage and achieve goals. should
they use nclb as a framework? have tests ever been fair?
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Grace>>i agree but standardized tests
should not be the only way to assess student performance
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Hope>>Tricia, yes use NCLB as a guideline
or a starting point.
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Patricia
Kathrine--Ryan>>Grace, i agree with you.
standardized tests are one measure.
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Amber>>testing or assessment by the new
mechanism --collects the data but I am not a for test person--productys and
process are more equality I believe
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Hope>>I think the administrators need the
knowledge and education to be good administrators
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Patricia
Kathrine--Ryan>>amber, so true.
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Grace>>standardized tests are typically
more predictive of future sucess in postsecondary education but
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Patricia
Kathrine--Ryan>>even so, standardized tests are not the only
indicator of future success in post secondary ed. thank goodness edci looks at
other qualities of a doctoral student!
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Grace>>it is not fair, moreover not
valid to test students only through stnd. tests
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Amber>>Grace???? really???? Stadford
through out using these scores due to the no corrolation
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Amber>>Stanford I meant :-)
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Grace>>yes, norm-referenced tests are
good indicators of future sucess
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Grace>>i learned that in my assessment
class
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Patricia
Kathrine--Ryan>>i knew you meant stanford. Grace, you seem
to have strong feelings about nclb,whereas, i believe it can be used as a
framework to try to improve the quality of education for all.
it seems to me there is room for flexibility.
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Amber>>Sorry I am using someone else's
"strange" keyboard--I will try to slow down so not so many spelling
mishaps
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Grace>>Oh, yes, I agree as long as it
is applied through phases
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Patricia
Kathrine--Ryan>>strange keyboard, and frameworks can lead us
into a discussion on MD Comar regulations...are you guys ready?
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Grace>>there is too much responsibility
on teachers' shoulders and..
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Patricia
Kathrine--Ryan>>we'll continue with nclb..i see we can still
have conversation about it.
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Grace>>OK
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Hope>>ok
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Patricia
Kathrine--Ryan>>too much responsibilites on teachers?
explain please
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Amber>>I am change to COMAR and then
connect back to NCLB related to AT later
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Patricia
Kathrine--Ryan>>ok..sounds like a good plan..i have my first
question ready.
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Grace>>ok
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Amber>>ok
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Hope>>oka
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Patricia
Kathrine--Ryan>>What does it mean and look like for
technology-based instructional products to offer ?equivalent access? ?
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Patricia
Kathrine--Ryan>>those are supposed to be quotes.
i pasted from word.
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Hope>>case by case basis...I think it
really helps to try to get the students equivalent
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Patricia
Kathrine--Ryan>>give an example of a case where a technology
based instructional product offers "equivalent access"
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Hope>>a touch tone monitor for someone who
have trouble typing
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Grace>>voice recognition
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Amber>>Powerpoint vs.
an another product that does the same thing but a cheaper cost or vs
versa (once compliant)
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Amber>>another example ...
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Grace>>I read a few things about how
shools comply with COMAR
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Grace>> ?To help schools comply with
the new COMAR regulations, a two-phase training program called Technology
Inclusion for All is being implemented
by PG County schools. There are two phases:
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Grace>>I am quoting
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Grace>>Phase I: Three certified
teachers will be trained from each school about the new guidelines and
procedures, especially as they apply to instructional use of software and
software purchasing.
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Grace>>Phase II: The trained cohort
members will conduct a two-hour inservice for the full staff in their respective
schools.
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Grace>>source:
http://www.pgcps.pg.k12.md.us/~tifa/project.html
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Patricia
Kathrine--Ryan>>seems to be a reasonable professional
development plan. thanks for the link..i'd like to read more about the specific
plan.
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Hope>>how recepitive are the teachers to
the training??? what are some typical attitudes?
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Grace>>the powerpoint presentaion by
MSDE talks about an action plan like this
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Patricia
Kathrine--Ryan>>i think hope it's brand new..time will tell
how receptive the teachers are. sounds
like a good topic for dissertation!
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Grace>>actually it is not very new.
training was conducted on selected dates from June through October, 2002
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Amber>>I am still trying to think of the
product that Xybernaut was trying to duplicate--they are wearable computers
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Amber>>They were trying to have it like
boardmaker and something else
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Grace>>how do you wear it
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Amber>>but the cost was far more
expensive than other products
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Grace>>how heavy is it
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Patricia
Kathrine--Ryan>>i also mentioned in my comar post on the
asynchronous discussion board, the need to develop a capacity for teacher skills
and understanding and equipment for the infusion of AT in traditional classroom
settings.
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Amber>>so they could never break into
the market because schools could not justifiy the cost
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Patricia
Kathrine--Ryan>>june-october 2002 is 1 year new, in my
humble opinion.
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Grace>>no i
maent, teachers got
training and will be training other teachers
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Hope>>Do the teachers get hands-on
training...actually using the technology?
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Patricia
Kathrine--Ryan>>amber, i'm interested in your thought.
what exactly do the wearable computers provide for special needs
students.
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Amber>>Tricia what is
June-october
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Grace>>no details on that
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Patricia
Kathrine--Ryan>>yes, said that the phasing in is not so
new--it began june-october of 2002.
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Grace>>What i am saying is , schools
are really doing something to comply with COMAR. They developed an action plan
and they are applying it.
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Amber>>Grace if I am correct the
training was on the PP presentation (or at least one on their MSDE site) that
was geared into having
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Grace>>yes, the PP presentation talks
about an action plan
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Amber>>teachers become aware of the
COMAR and also on how some software and web sources need to be evaluated before
use...etc...
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Patricia
Kathrine--Ryan>>so if they were used under the COMAR
regulations, how could one evaluate the effectiveness of these products with
respect to student achievement?
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Grace>>yes, I believe increasing
awareness is very important
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Grace>>Also, did you know that ?Prince
George's County Public Schools has a team of assistive technology consultants
who can assist school-based special education teams, families, and students in
the selection, acquisition and/or use of assistive technology and/or
augmentative communication strategies and techniques?? I think this is
wonderful.
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Amber>>the connection to student
achievnment is yet to be seen by many....
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Amber>>I think everyone is trying to
meet the guidelines that can be met easily FIRST...
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Patricia
Kathrine--Ryan>>right.
it is such an interesting concept, one i would like to pursue.
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Amber>>then they will move onto the
harder parts
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Grace>>hopefully
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Amber>>Grace, yes and hopefully before a new administration comes on board
(nationally) and changes the framework
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Patricia
Kathrine--Ryan>>Grace, you have offered some concrete
examples from prince georges county.
i'm pleased to see that they are moving in this direction.
it seems you summarized their action plan for us.
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Grace>>i don't know what would happen
to all these regulations if a new admin comes
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Patricia
Kathrine--Ryan>>amber, i know you taught k-12 (chemistry).
i taught elementary science. Grace
and hope what are your teaching experiences?
this is leading to another question.
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Grace>>yes, i awas very pleased to read
about their action plan
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Amber>>the wearable computer is small
can be worn on your belt and has an eyepiece or can sit on a wheelchair etc..
has internet access and touchscreen capabilities etc...
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Hope>>I have only been a teaching assistant
(computer science) and tutored computer science and English
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Grace>>i taught adults at the foreign
service. before coming to this coutry, i taught high school kids
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Amber>>Grace what subject?
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Patricia
Kathrine--Ryan>>if you were asked to develop an action plan
to support your school system in implementing the accessibility regulation. amber, thanks for ideas on wearable computers.
i needed that.
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Grace>>turkish and
english, language
education and now learning styles and strategies and technology at umd.
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Amber>>regarding
COMAR...
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Amber>>when the regs first came out the
reason why tech specialists in the county
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Patricia
Kathrine--Ryan>>finishing my prompt..if you were asked to
develop an action plan..what would you include as the important outcomes,
indicators, stakeholders, equipment?
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Patricia
Kathrine--Ryan>>professional development?
in simple terms, please.
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Amber>>became so concrned is that
software that did not meet these guidelines would no longer be able to be
purchased with federal money
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Amber>>Tricia an action plan for??? tech
plans for AT? COMAR? NCLB? MTTS?
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Patricia
Kathrine--Ryan>>amber..in response to your
contribution...so if i were on the school improvement team, and asked to make
recommendations to purchase
software, i would create a technology tools evaluation committee.
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Grace>>i think, educating teachers
about Comar to educate peers is an excellent step
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Patricia
Kathrine--Ryan>>action plan to integrate comar regulations
into the school improvement plan.
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Patricia
Kathrine--Ryan>>hope..are you ok?
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Hope>>first they need to know who the
students are...
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Patricia
Kathrine--Ryan>>good.
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Hope>>Yes, I am just greeting visitors and
trying to think of what to write
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Hope>>and what the students need
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Patricia
Kathrine--Ryan>>right..first step..identify the specific
needs, and educat teachers.
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Patricia
Kathrine--Ryan>>perhaps develop a mentoring system--special
educators team with classroom teachers. and INFORM parents.
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Hope>>I think the teachers need to be cross
trained and know how to adapt
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Amber>>Regarding the evaluation
committee-review--LSS had to do this as a county --if you go to any LSS website
you will now find approved software lists or the software the county supports
and how it meets the requirements if it doesn't in some area they usually give
alternativesrecommendations
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Grace>>remeber the including al
students in any activity article,
in reference to including and teaching students with disabilities, less engaged
teachers were described by respondents as those "who don't know, who don't
want to or don't know how to"
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Hope>>yes keep the parents involved!!!
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Grace>>so educating teachers is
important. I guess i am behind the discussion
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Patricia
Kathrine--Ryan>>LSS is what?
Grace, there will always be teachers who resist change.
the leaders in the school can provide incentives for those teachers, as
indicated in NCLB!!!
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Patricia
Kathrine--Ryan>>as you can tell, i'm an advocate for merit
pay.
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Hope>>I would also hope that the parents
would have talked to the administrators before school started and started the
process so that things can be in place when school does start.
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Patricia
Kathrine--Ryan>>that would be ideal, but not always the
case. i believe schools do the best
they can with what they have. i'm an optimist about education.
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Amber>>LSS = Local School SYstem
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Hope>>Tricia, I thought that was a good
incentive for teachers
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Hope>>then if they know at a later
date...then cross training and adapting to the situation would be helpful
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Patricia
Kathrine--Ryan>>thanks amber. i have another lengthy
prompt. coming soon.
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Amber>>I think making principals and
VP's and team leaders/resource teachers aware FIRST of COMAR could start a
process of why this is even important to me?
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Amber>>in other words most teachers want
to know--how will this effect me? why
do I need to sit here and listen to this?
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Hope>>Good point
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Amber>>if you can connect the reason for
th
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Amber>>the teachers having to know it
you can build a stronger PD base of ACTIVE participation
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Grace>>i agree
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Amber>>the 3 teachers in a school that
then train the trainer model have recently been receiving some bad research
reviews in that it doesn't implement
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Patricia
Kathrine--Ryan>>under comar regulations 13.05.02.03..if a
technology based product to provdie students with disabilities meets specific
criteria (such as tech is not available) school personal need to document this
and look for alternative methods. how
could an educator provide proper documentation.
what kinds of observations should be made?
do we really have time for trial and error with these kids?
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Amber>>many of the teachers who are
trained us it as a stepping stone and exit out to another school, position,
district office
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Patricia
Kathrine--Ryan>>how should we organize for accessibility in
the classroom?
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Amber>>additiobnally in many cases (most
high school level) teachers DO NOT WANT TO BE TAUGHT by their co-workers
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Grace>>i don't understand that. what is
wrong with that?
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Hope>>no I don't think you can use the
trial by error ...their learning ability is already at a limit...it would be
unfair not to know what to do to help them
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Patricia
Kathrine--Ryan>>so back to your point hope..have the
capacities in place by the start of school.
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Patricia
Kathrine--Ryan>>know the kids before they enter. know their
needs.
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Grace>>tricia, there isn't time for
trial and error but as teachers learn more about what is working and what not,
there will be less problems. don't you think?
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Hope>>but then who would the teachers like
to learn from...
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Patricia
Kathrine--Ryan>>true..research is used to inform practice.
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Amber>>I think a lot of the trial and
test is associated with the fact that many strategies work with one child and
not with another. By testing (one
interpretation) is that you contiune you try different things until one product
or strat works
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Patricia
Kathrine--Ryan>>this conversation just makes me want to go
into the classrooms to see how they are designed for inclusion, and what's
working..what's not.
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Hope>>yes
tricia...or at least have a
minimum amount of things/system in place so that they would not be TOTALLY
unprepared when they walk into the
door
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Grace>>learning styles also have an
important effect
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Grace>>on how we learn and what our
preferences are
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Hope>>yes
Grace, I agree...people learn by
different ways
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Patricia
Kathrine--Ryan>>What are some specific strategies for
overcoming barriers to using AT?
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Patricia
Kathrine--Ryan>>I think communication is the key.
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Grace>>for
teachesr??? students??
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Patricia
Kathrine--Ryan>>teachers.
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Amber>>While I think it is a little much
asking a general --lets say chemistry teacher--to have to know all the special
education strategies, applications and AT devices and when and how to use
them...
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Patricia
Kathrine--Ryan>>and dedication to ones' profession.
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Patricia
Kathrine--Ryan>>You are getting discipline specific, so I
will too.
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Amber>>I do think it is important to
make MORE teachers aware of the products, applications , devices and how things
have helped students gain
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Patricia
Kathrine--Ryan>>How can AT help learning in various subject
areas? Grace, you had some ideas for ESOL, I believe.
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Grace>>teachers can share theoir
experiences with other teachers about what works for what kind or students
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Patricia
Kathrine--Ryan>>how will teachers share their experiences?
chat over lunch or conference proposals?
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Amber>>I think the NCLB and the COMAR
regulations have at least opened up the door to mandate PD for this knowledge to
be passed along to more than just the special educator
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Patricia
Kathrine--Ryan>>oh yea..professional development is most
definitely needed for AT in general classroom.
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Grace>>teacher circles, once a month
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Patricia
Kathrine--Ryan>>Shall we begin to bring this conversation to
a close? Teacher circles..love the idea. thanks Grace.
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Hope>>I think the teachers also need to
make the other students aware of the situation and get their help...at least to
cooperate
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Amber>>To make an impact you are going
to see a flood of implementation efforts
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Grace>>also do not forget the parents
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Patricia
Kathrine--Ryan>>again..mentor protege model for students.
thanks hope.
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Grace>>parents need to know their
children's rights
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Hope>>I agree
Grace
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Patricia
Kathrine--Ryan>>good point.
i'm sure many are not aware. pd can build awareness.
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Amber>>PD workshops,
semiars,
conferences, course (ie like this) websites already far to many (you will be
visiting many soon) --parent initatives, student initatives and on and on
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Hope>>that is the administrator's job
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Patricia
Kathrine--Ryan>>thanks for helping me with this discussion
all. i'm pleased.
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Patricia
Kathrine--Ryan>>amber, are you pleased with the content of
the discussion?
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Amber>>Hope and admin job to pass along
to the teachers the PD?
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Grace>>I enjoyed it very much. Thanks
all. Thanks Tricia!
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Amber>>Tricia--Yes and thank you for
leading us. I did want to end by
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Hope>>I don't fully understand...could you
please explain...
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Patricia
Kathrine--Ryan>>my pleasure. i look forward to more.
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Hope>>do you mean professional development?
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Amber>>stating the connection I hope you
have discussed and read related to how AT is more than just special education
due to these mandates
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Amber>>this week will hpefully bring it
to light and closure somewhat
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Hope>>I think it is the administrator's job
to make sure their teachers meet the requirements and get the necessary training
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Amber>>related to discussion chats we
will meet on Fridays at 1:00 except the 2nd and 3rd
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Patricia
Kathrine--Ryan>>sounds like a good plan.
hope..are you still on the administrator issues?:)
just joking..have a good weekend.
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Grace>>amber, you are archaving this
chat, too, right?
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Hope>>have a good weekend.
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Amber>>on those weeks we will meet on
Tuesdays at 8:30 PM I will post the calendar via email for all to confirm if OK
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Patricia
Kathrine--Ryan>>hope..really, i re-read your comments, and
it's well received.
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Hope>>okay...thanks
tricia.
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Amber>>Yes and will post when I get back
to the office (or home) excellent
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Patricia
Kathrine--Ryan>>amber..is there an email feature that is
not enabled in webct?
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Grace>>I need to read it. oh, i can
just copy and paste it to a word
document.
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Amber>>i will close by saying the next
week activites will have you do an activity with only the knowledge you know so
far related to AT and then we will travel down a knoeledge bank and see if our
thoughts change
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Amber>>good job ladies--good afternoon
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*-**** Amber left Room1.
Time:Fri Sep 26 14:05:04 2003
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Hope>>take care everyone!
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Patricia
Kathrine--Ryan>>take care everyone.
i'm off to pick up my kids from school.
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Grace>>have a wonderful weekend!
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*-**** Patricia--Kathrine--Ryan left Room1.
Time:Fri Sep 26 14:05:24 2003
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